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Enough!
In the words of the never-to-be-forgotten urban philosopher, Rodney King, “Can’t we all just get along?” I am willing to admit that I crossed a threshold in naming a few of you Anti-American. For that, I apologize.
I will simply ask that our commenters, please confine your comments to the topic of the post. I will give a very recent example of what I consider a transgression. SM offered a post about a recent court case concerning abstinence. One of our commenters responded with a post about “the law.” Was he referring to United States law? No. He was referring to St. Augustine’s understanding of God’s law. Now, I am every bit as much of a believing and practicing Catholic as the next guy. But, when we discuss court cases on this website, it would seem that we are commenting on contemporary United States (or State) law and the culture which creates/tolerates/precipitates it. We are not talking about moral law that was “promulgated” 1600 or more years ago. Such a comment is completely unresponsive to the original post and drags the whole discussion off-topic. You may personally hold the view that contemporary law is divorced from our foundations as a Christian country; I may hold that view; and I’m pretty sure SM holds that view. But, that is not the topic of the post.
Please make sure if you are going to comment that the comment is pertinent to the original post.
Relatedly, let us all try to take each others posts and comments in the most charitable possible light. I make that pledge to anyone who posts here or comments here. I hope that all of the readers and contributors can find it in their hearts to start over and do the same.
On a slightly different note, I must note that something is working. Daily we are breaking records for visits. Already today at 6:37 Eastern Time, we have logged more visits than on any other single day in the history of Conservative Donnybrook. I attribute that first to excellent content. But, also to some extent to the readers and commenters that we have attracted to this site. I’d like to publicly congratulate all of the contributors to this site. And, I would also like to thank our readers and commenters.
Let us all try to start again.
November 15th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Okay. I take it back about the record number of posts. We are 12 shy of tying the record which was set yesterday. But, still…
November 15th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Thanks, Karl. Your apology is accepted, and I do hold you and almost all of your website in high esteem. It’s a help to know what you’re looking for here, and you’ve got a “will do, sir” from me.
I suggest a forum would alleviate some of the itching needs of those of us (LTG, Dean, me) who are more prone to debate the philosophical underpinnings of the universe. That might be a worthwhile project if ever you decide to expand.
November 15th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
I appreciate your willingness to work with us and to stick with us as we learn to do this better. Of course, this website does occasionally take up more philosophical topics, and when it does, I invite everyone to contribute. This is an experiment. We’ve made mistakes, but we hope to figure it out and generate a true discussion on the issues.
My favorite professor at Ave Maria School of Law said this about the website in its opening days: “One thing is for sure, ‘conservatism’ has fragmented to an astonishing degree, and we can’t regain any coherence if we don’t discuss our differences.”
This is, I think, is a pretty good aspirational goal. Speaking generally (not specifically to you now, Josh), we need to realize that the nature of this website is such that disagreements will arise. The website itself encourages this sort of exchange and this sort of exchange is desirable. However, I will urge everyone, once again, PLEASE, do not take things so personally. And, as a corollary, do not make things personal.
If you’ve made things personal in the past, please take a moment now to apologize to those who you’ve treated uncharitably. And, if you’ve taken things personally, please take a moment to examine whether it is worth holding a grudge at this point.
So, to be perfectly responsive to your comment, there will be (and have been) opportunities to argue more obscure, philosophical points. But, not every post is an invitation of this sort.
Above all, let us be Christian in our approach to one another. Peace.
Again, thanks Josh, and welcome (again). Let us start anew.
November 15th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Okay. NOW we’ve beaten our record for most visits in a day. We are currently sitting at 98 - two better than yesterday - and it’s only 8:45. Again, thank you to both our contributors and our readers. We thank you. It would appear that this will be our first day over 100 visits. May it not be the last.
November 15th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Karl, good sentiments. As for me, I’m interested in political philosophy, and I also enjoy freewheeling discussion, I’m not super-concerned about on-topicness, and I enjoy the contributions of the Polemics crowd. So speaking in regards to my own blog posts only, I encourage commenters to say whatever they feel like saying.. with this caveat- I, too, hope the name-calling and character attacks will be kept to a minimum.
Perhaps, too, we could introduce the occasional “open thread” perhaps with an idea or two to kick them off. e.g.: “Open thread: Hillary is a screeching harpie. Agree? Discuss!”
Also, something we could think about would be some kind of a threaded comments system– I think there are Wordpress plug-ins to achieve this. Ideally, it would allow the user to “fold up” a sub-thread and so easily ignore tangential arguments and stuff that he is not interested in. And it would make discussions easier to follow.
And in the future, as Josh suggests, if this thing keeps growing, maybe a message board like phpBB would be a good idea.
November 15th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
That’s been suggested before. And, I think maybe it’s a good idea. Perhaps we could begin a third page with some sort of BB-like feature where readers could post their own discussion threads. Is this what you’re thinking?
November 15th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Karl, I was thinking of a full blown discussion forum like this. But if there were something simpler we could do using wordpress it might be easier.. you know, I bet there are wordpress plug-ins out there for simple discussion boards, too.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
I’ll look into seeing if anything is out there like that this weekend. It won’t be on Friday - must go drinking with friends after work. It won’t be Saturday - Indiana - Purdue football game with accompanying drinking and tailgating with friends. But, it might be Sunday - between Colts game and Mass. My life is getting entirely too busy!
November 15th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Karl writes : “We are not talking about moral law that was “promulgated” 1600 or more years ago”
Neither was St. Augustine. He was writing about the nature of law per se. And the comment was equally to the point because the guidance councilor was likewise acting according to that same higher law.
Thus the nature of the case is the application of law accord to two different understandings of the nature of law.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Karl, I’ll look around too and let you know if I find anything.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
I just did a quick cursory look and nothing jumps out immediately. Do you know if it’s possible to host a phpBB on the same site as a WordPress blog, I wonder?…It would be simple enough to just provide a link to it in the header next to Home and About…
November 15th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
It should be. I believe Wordpress uses mySQL + PHP and so does phpBB. So everything you need should be supported already.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Unless your hosting package only includes one wordpress blog, and doesn’t let you add anything else, for some reason.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
That may be the answer. I have another, more or less defunct, blog that I can experiment with this weekend. (Again, probably Sunday) and I will see if I can get something working. If so, I will add something to this site. Hopefully, it will give our more theoretical oriented commenters a forum in which to take these discussions as they arise. I think that would be very helpful and perhaps keep the comments on the posts themselves more on target.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Karl,
Does your web-host include a Fantastico application which runs install scripts? If so, it will probably include both phbBB2 or SMF1 forum software. SMF seems to have better SPAM protection and that was a problem I had to patch quite a bit when hosting a forum at Polemics. Food for thought.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
I have no idea what that is, Jon. But, when I look at my hosting page, it shows a Software/Services program called Fantastico De Luxe. Are you saying that the software is included in that application?
November 15th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Now that I look at it, it shows both phpBB2 and SMF. If I just install it, is that all I will have to do? Maybe provide a link on the blog?
November 15th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Well, hell! That was easy. I think it’s up and running. Thanks, Jon.
November 15th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
As to the fresh start proposed here, I’m hopeful, but I believe you have contravening forces at work here that will undermine the peace here unless your expectations with regard to philosophical discussion changes. From the outset, you have assembled blog authors holding differing (and in some cases opposing) political philosophical positions and principles which they bring to the table. If you expect substantive discussion, you cannot expect the proffering of those philosophical positions not to come into play.
Many of us know what those positions are and have been given a start at common understanding of those positions by the crafting of “definitions” on the About page. It is only reasonable, when those positions are known and in front of us, to start with those premises when challenging a point made in a post by an author holding to those views. The philosophy cannot be avoided when you really dig into the issues. When philosophy is avoided, you end up with raw assertion, which easily descends into “I’m right, you’re wrong. Idiot!”
For what it’s worth, it’s a tall order to attempt what you have launched here … putting neos and paleos together on the authorial side of a blog. I gave consideration to doing that at Polemics, but found even with paleos on the authorial side and a few neos on the comment side, it was challenge enough to keep the heat down to a comfortable simmer.
Here’s hoping it works and that all engage as Christian gentlemen willing to learn from each other.
November 15th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Yep, Karl. Just like that. You’ll have to make some choices for configuration and such, but there you go.
I think you can use the RSS widget Wordpress to include recent posts on this page, if you wish. Let me know if you want help with that.
November 15th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Hear, hear. I have always thought that the crew I have put together here is mature enough and of a Christian perspective that philosophical differences will be overcome. You may be right. My alma mater is a case in point. I wouldn’t have thought that the situation there would dissolve into dissension and lawsuits, but it has. And over petty crap. I am hoping we can avoid the same fate.
See http://fumare.blogspot.com for all the gory details.
Perhaps I am overly optimistic. Perhaps those of us who care about the success of this endeavor should think about saying a prayer or two for its success.
Again, thanks Jon for the support.
November 16th, 2007 at 12:47 am
Thank you very much for the apologies and please add mine to the mix.
This week has been a little stressful to me and I fear I let it get into my posts. I had one brother die from chronic and acute liver failure (financially successful, heavy drinker). The same day I had another brother arraigned on charges of battery (thanks to sympathetic do-g00ders at CODA). These charges were filled by a Christian prosecutor who knows us personally and he did absolutely no investigating, not even an interview with my brother. No testimony was taken at the arraignment. A trial date was set and he was ordered to undergo anger management classes at his expense. Oh wait, he didn’t have to, the judge gave him the option of going to jail. This brother has an impeccable reputation in our community (even served on the school board) and after extensive Christian counseling between him and his estranged wife the biggest fault that they say he has is that he avoids conflict at all costs (and they are willing to testify on his behalf in court). The complete and utter irony is that the charges are not only false, they stand the truth on its head: she is the one who battered him. But zero investigation. Now you may wonder why I might have a problem with the assertion that we live under the rule of law in this country.
But I wander from the topic. Please forgive my shortness and any unnecessary offensiveness. I look forward to charitable, vigorous discussions and the next round of ale is on me.
November 16th, 2007 at 1:01 am
While we are talking about improving the site, I would like to see you expand the Jabs section upper right to include posts that have comment activity for the last 2-3 days.
Thanks!
November 17th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
[…] been noodling a bit on the stated exasperation of some Conservative Donnybrook bloggers over what they view as abstract philosophical distractions […]
December 19th, 2007 at 8:58 am
Looks like you’re going to need commenter registration and SPAM (Askimet works pretty well) protection soon.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Yeah, I’ve been marking stuff as spam and deleting it when I see it. But perhaps there is a better solution.
(I just deleted a spam comment that was just before Jon Luker’s comment if anyone is wondering. He didn’t just randomly decide to make a suggestion on a stale thread.)
December 19th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
I basically use what Wordpress offers “out of the box”. Require users (commenters) to register in order to comment, with the first comment moderated, and activate the Akismet SPAM protection plug-in, which requires a free API key you can acquire at Wordpress.com. That’s worked pretty well for me, so far. Only caveat is that early on, while Akismet is “learning” you might have some legitimate comments get flagged as SPAM, but I think I just had one like that happen and it was easily unflagged.
December 19th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Yeah we seem to have some kind of spam protection that’s catching most of the stuff. I don’t know if it’s the Akismet plugin you speak of or something else. It just doesn’t seem to get trackback spam or the subtler comments spam.. Actually Karl is in charge of these things.. Karl, you out there?
December 19th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Sort of…I’ve been exceptionally busy these last few weeks. Today, for instance is the first day I’ve even looked at the site for about four days. I apologize to all involved. I appreciate Willmoore stepping up and monitoring the SPAM quotient on behalf of the site. Thanks Willmoore. I will try to do better in the future, but we shall see what that brings for me.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
It’s cool, man. My spam-deleting activities amount to about two minutes per week. So I should be able to keep working it into my schedule.