RSS
Meltdown!
Posted by Karl on Dec 11th, 2007
2007
Dec 11
Lawrence O’Donnell had a meltdown on the McLaughlin Group regarding Mormonism. O’Donnell, in commenting on Romney recent speech on religion, called all Mormons racists and extended this charge to Mitt Romney. And, if you hang in there to the very end of the clip, he hurls out our personal favorite around here, he calls all Mormons anti-American.
Amazingly, in the process, he momentarily leaves Pat Buchanan speechless, which is one heck of an accomplishment.
[h/t Lawrence Auster]
December 11th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
WOW! that’s probably the most furry I have ever seen Lawrence demonstrate!
December 12th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Karl: “[O'Donnell] called all Mormons racists and extended this charge to Mitt Romney.”
Well, not really. He said that Mormonism as of 1978 was a racist faith, which is true, since according to the LDS all blacks were forever damned as the race of Cain. He paired this fact with Romney’s assertion that he believes in the “faith of his fathers.” Which leads to the question, what part of that faith does/did Romney believe? Romney was 30 years old in 1978, adult enough to know the tenets of his “faith,” which make George W. Bush’s dispensationalism look like a profound and sane doctrine.
Also, he only called Joseph Smith “anti-American,” not all Mormons. One cannot extend his implication to all Mormons, since we would then be saying that O’Donnell also called all Mormons criminals and rapists.
But the idiocy and incoherent jabber of this program provides yet another reason to stop watching TV.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:44 am
Josh,
Perhaps it’s just me, but I don’t remember McLaughlin Group episodes past being quite that talk-over-the-top-of-each-other.
I found myself at times wanting O’Donnell to be more explicit about the teaching of the LDS organization he was referring to. Not enough people know what abominable things they have explicitly and repeatedly taught, and not many know what I pointed out in a paper on this very topic for a religion class about a decade ago: the LDS has routinely been sweeping documented instances of damaging testimony on the web and in print. They have been engaged in a “mainstreaming” policy for about 20 years now, and the rapid growth they are seeing, primarily overseas where noone has any memory of their past, attests to this. In fact, the presentation one gets from LDS missionaries and in conversation with LDS bishops and ward and stake presidents can often raise a “what’s the big deal?” mentality among non-Mormons. Obfuscation and adoption of terminology are the order of the day. I would be willing to lay money on the fact that Glenn Beck couldn’t begin to tell you what an infinite regress of gods means. I would be willing to bet that many Mormons, especially contemporary American converts from evangelicalism, Catholicism, or nothing, hold to an essentially orthodox view of God and are tacitly allowed to do so. Not every Mormon becomes a Temple Mormon, and as long as you’re tithing, I’ll bet Salt Lake wants to keep it that way.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:52 am
Proof of this can be obtained any given Sunday by going to an LDS service. You’re going to hear prayers to the Heavenly Father, songs about Jesus, testimonies from random attendees about how great it feels to be blessed with fellowship, how cool it felt to become spiritually alive when he first read the Book of Mormon, maybe a little about baptisms, and lots and lots of little kids running around. No mention of Brigham’s distinctives. No expository preaching from Doctrine and Covenants or the Book of Abraham, no discourses on the telestial, terrestrial, and celestial kingdoms. No talk of the mirrors in the temples or the bulls around the basin where people volunteer to work for hours at a time getting dunked over and over on behalf of dead people culled from the vast LDS genealogical research over the years. Just happy, shiny people.
December 13th, 2007 at 7:57 am
You’re right on. The LDS have done a fantastic spin job (check out their website sometime; their list of core beliefs is a joke). This is why I see O’Donnell’s meltdown as having some value and purpose: it is refreshing for the LDS to be exposed by an MSM-type like O’Donnell, granted that his points could’ve been better chosen and he needs to chill out.
Perhaps, you are suggesting, Romney is one of the clueless shiny, happy people. But he also might be in the higher levels of an ultra-secretive, cultlike group that obviously cares far more about its maintaining its power structure and covering up truth. Given that he’s running for President, it would be good to know what his level of involvement and knowledge is.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:17 am
Mike,
The McLaughlin Group is the predecessor of all “talk-over-the-top-of-each-other” programs that litter television programming today. It has always been that way and McLaughlin has said his purpose in maintaining a rapid pace and pushing for quick answers (which produces the mayhem) is how he gets his panel to speak their mind rather than tailor words. Years ago, I was an avid McLaughlin Group watcher (back in my television watching days) and my family would always roll their eyes when I switched it on. They thought it was obnoxious and I thought it was important political discussion. That was back when Limbaugh was rising and I caught him on the radio as often as I could. My family had it right. Obnoxious.
As for O’Donnell’s tirade, he was out of control, but what he was railing on should not be dismissed. Call me bigoted, but I don’t make much distinction between Mormons, JWs, Moonies, Scientologists, etc. Their all cults and their adherents are not suitable, by virtue of that adherence, to be in positions of governmental authority.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:18 am
That should be “they’re all cults”…
December 13th, 2007 at 10:47 am
While I will stay out of the fray, I would like to point out that many, many people in the United States (and presumably abroad too) call and consider the Catholic Church a cult.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Jon, I guess you’re right. My wife used to roll her eyes when I tuned in to Crossfire. I don’t watch much of that stuff anymore, either.
Bill, you are correct, but the people who hold that belief hold it based on misinformation: viz, Catholics worship Mary, a bishop’s mitre is symbolic of the ancient fish-worship (my old roommate in the Air Force told me that one), icons and statuary is a violation of their second commandment, etc. There is a huge difference when you call something a cult based on factual information which cumulatively convinces the reasonably prudent person that it’s a cult, as with Mormonism. Also, I don’t know if I was in the minority or majority of Protestants who did not consider Catholicism to be a cult. I used to think it had defective theology, incorrect anthropology, aberrant praxis, etc., but I thought the same thing about Methodists. Now, of course, I just think that about Methodists.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Bill writes : “many, many people . . . call and consider the Catholic Church a cult.”
That’s because it is a cult. While I suspect relatively few Americans are actually inculcated into the Faith, and thus most Americans only think tangentially as Catholics while being virtually fully inculcated into the American materialist culture, nevertheless, the two cultures are wholly distinct.
In fact, anyone who has grown up in the materialist American culture who is put into a truly Catholic environment will experience culture shock.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Excellent point, Mike!
LTG…nevermind.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Uh oh. Here we go. The word “cult” is as poorly defined in contemporary America as “ideology” and “culture” are, which means we’re all going to end up going ’round in circles if we stay on this subject. What Protestants who call the Church a cult mean by it and what you mean, LTG, are two different things.
My own perspective on the O’Donnell thing is that it’s a totally pointless diatribe unless he reveals what base he’s arguing from. So what if Mormonism is racist? Maybe racism is true. You don’t just decide a priori what is true and then find a church that believes what you do. Well, actually, that’s the way most people go about it, but that’s all wrong. What you do is look for signs of the true Church, and then, if you find it, conform your mind to its doctrines. The only objective counter to racism comes from the Church; it is not something that’s self-evident or able to be proved from natural principles alone. Thus, if O’Donnell is arguing as a Christian, that’s one thing. But if he’s arguing that the truth of a faith should be judged by secular opinions about things, he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Mr. Newland : “What Protestants who call the Church a cult mean by it and what you mean, LTG, are two different things.”
No doubt. But I only wish it were just the Protestants. But there is also an underlying Americanism which homogenizes Catholics into American materialism.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Mike and others,
The “TJF” posts on the thread below are apropos for our own. Dr. Fleming is a real hoot.
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=427#comments
December 14th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Thanks Josh M.,
Thomas Fleming and Chronicles are always insightful.